Andrea:  Swamiji, you mentioned the four arms of the deity, and you said that there was willing...

SWAMIJI:  Understanding, willing, feeling.

Andrea:  And you said remembering, and then you said...

SWAMIJI:  Subconscience.

Andrea:  Is it like the subconscious?

SWAMIJI:  It is the same thing.

Andrea:  It's not to do with the conscience?

SWAMIJI:  The conscience also is in the subconscious. It is one of the functions of the subconscious.

Andrea:  I see.

SWAMIJI:  Memory also is a part of it. It has got many functions. Memory is one. Conscience is another as the voice of God, you could say. Something tells you this is proper; that is the work of conscience, and it is the work of the subconscious, also.

Dr. Goel:  What is the difference between conscious and subconscious?

SWAMIJI:  You are now working in the conscious level. In dream you are in subconscious level. The conscious level is withdrawn into the subconscious, which is dream. In sleep you are in unconscious.

Dr. Goel:  And in deep sleep?

SWAMIJI:  Unconscious.

Eva:  Swamiji, along those same lines I have another question. You mentioned on the same day that those four faculties, they are together in one.

SWAMIJI:  If all the faculties work in unison, it becomes intuition.

Eva:  So, intuition is bigger than conscience?

SWAMIJI:  It is bigger than all the four. It is a total blending of all the four.

Andrea:  I was thinking about how people really wouldn't want to stay in the body if there's no point, really. You know, I understood why some people wanted to leave the body once they realised...

SWAMIJI:  It is not a desire to leave the body, actually. It is a desire to leave the consciousness of individuality - body or no body - that is a different matter. If you have a body, but you are not conscious that there is a body, it is not going to trouble you. The body is not the source of trouble; your consciousness that there is a body is the source of trouble. A wealthy person is a person who is conscious that he has a lot of wealth. Suppose he has a lot of wealth, but he is not conscious that he has wealth, you cannot call him a rich man. What do you say?

Visitors:  Right.

SWAMIJI:  So consciousness is wealth. This is a very interesting thing to hear! [laughter]

Dr. Goel:  Consciousness is everything.

SWAMIJI:  Yes. Suppose you have got a lot of money, and you are not conscious that you have got it. Can you call it a worthwhile thing? It is useless. So, consciousness is money, also. Very interesting! Everything is consciousness. Minus that, there is no meaning in anything. So, bondage is consciousness of finitude. It is not the existence of anything, but the consciousness of the existence of something; so, the bondage is consciousness only, of some type - limited consciousness.

The question then is not of leaving the body, or holding the body. Let the body be there. There are bodies; so many people have got bodies here. Are you worried about them? [laughter] Why are you worried only about your body? What is the importance? If you are not at all concerned with the bodies of other people, why are you concerned with your body, as if it is more important than others'? That is called attachment of consciousness to a particular localised individuality.

Dr. Goel:  That is the worst thing.

SWAMIJI:  The whole point is that. It is not the existence of something, but the consciousness of it. In liberation, the world is not destroyed, only you will not be connecting it with your finitude. Your consciousness will pervade everything; therefore, there will be no particular attachment to any individual object. Liberation is the recognition of consciousness being present in all things, and not only in some things. If it is only in some things or one thing, that is bondage. If it is everywhere, it alone is, and is free. Now you are, and somebody else, also, is there, whereas there, only one is there.

Dr. Goel:  In liberation?

SWAMIJI:  In liberation, only One Being is there.

Dr. Goel:  And that is Universal Consciousness.

SWAMIJI:  Yes. Bondage is not in the existence of things, it is in the consciousness of the existence of things. It is a peculiar operation of consciousness. Now, the Universal Consciousness is locked up within one body only, which is what you call yourself. Therefore, it is frightened because of its limitations, because of its isolation from others - and because of its dependence on many external factors, etc., and also because of the fear of losing this individuality, one day or the other.

But suppose it is present in everything, which actually is the case. Then, there is no such fear. Fear arises from a dual existence. Fear arises from another outside you. The outside-consciousness must go; then, the fear also goes.

Andrea:  I actually feel peaceful somewhat, when you say that.

SWAMIJI:  Yes. When we hear it we feel a little peace. We are genuinely acquiring peace.

Dr. Goel:  So we must detach it?

SWAMIJI:  We need not detach it. We must attach it to all things. Then automatically, detachment takes place from one thing. Always there is a fear of detachment, so I suggested that such fear need not be there. You like attachments? Then attach yourself to all things, and then it is equal to detachment from one thing. So, you like to be attached; it is your happiness. If you are detached, great fear comes. Nobody wants detachment, so we never use such words. Don't say "renounce" and all that. Have attachment, but to everything. Let us see what happens. [laughter]

The mind is such a trickster. Neither will it want attachment to everything, nor detachment from anything. You want something? All right, take all things. You should not ask for something only. Everything you take; otherwise, don't ask. What are you asking for? Everything I will give you. Everything, also, you cannot take, because you have no place to keep it. The whole earth you take! [laughter]

Nobody can be so mischievous as the mind. It doesn't know what it wants, and yet, continuously goes on wanting, without knowing what it wants. Here is the trouble. Why don't you get attached to everything? What is wrong?

Visitor:  Ego.

SWAMIJI:  Ask the ego to get attached to everything, to every person in the world, every building, every tree in the forest and every river, every mountain, every sun, moon, and star. Get attached to all of them, and let us see what happens to you. It is possible you will not get attached. Here is the whole thing. Most unreasonable. Even in attachment you are unreasonable! [laughter]

There is a story: Acharya Sankara was inside the room. The door was bolted, and the disciple knocked from outside. "Who is there?" the guru asked. "I." "Let it be either nothing, or everything," the guru said.

There are three kinds of "I's": the I that is nothing, the I that is something, and the I that is everything. This "something" is a dangerous thing. Let it be nothing, or be everything. Then you are free. You cannot make this "I" nothing, nor can you make it everything, so you are hanging in the middle. [laughter]

Dr. Goel  That is the problem of life.

SWAMIJI:  Even when you are given everything, you don't want it. What kind of person! Have everything, and get attached to everything. Then you will have Virat-consciousness. Attachment of consciousness to everything is another name for Universal Consciousness.