(September 17, 1997)
Visitor: We are here to learn about Hinduism. We are interested in how Hinduism benefits your society more than, say, Christianity or Islam would benefit their societies. In what ways does Hinduism make your society better, and in what ways does it fall a little short in affecting the whole society as compared to Islam, Christianity or others?
Swamiji: We do not consider any religion as defective. They are all various degrees of the perception of Truth. Every religion has some good point. You cannot say that one religion is superior and another is inferior. We do not say that. There are levels of approach in the perception of Reality, and every level should be respected, just as every stage in the development of the human personality is an important stage right from babyhood, adolescence, adulthood, maturity, and the state of genius. All these are developmental processes of the human personality, and each stage is important. The stage of babyhood is as important as the developed condition of a genius. In a similar manner, the perception of Truth, which is what we call religion, is valid from different angles of vision, from different levels of reality, and in different degrees.
This Ashram was founded by a great saint called His Holiness Swami Sivananda. He had a universal gamut of perception. He did not stand for Hinduism or for any particular religion. He stood for humanity in search of God, and in this context you may consider him as a leader of people throughout the world and a friend of all religions, and highly sympathetic to every viewpoint in its own level. You are asking me in what way Hinduism has made us better. I am mentioning to you briefly the concepts of Hinduism. The aim of all evolutionary process, the very purpose of human existence, is the attainment of ultimate perfection. The purpose of human existence, the aim of the life of every individual, is the overcoming of the finitude of personality and moving towards the infinite perception of God. This is the aim of every human being, whatever be the religious denomination one may be adhering to. This is the wide vision of the founder of this institution, Swami Sivananda.
Coming to the point, Hinduism as it is to be understood, not as it is misunderstood, means a comprehensive approach in one's life. Our life has to be comprehensive, integral, total and multifaceted. It should not be a fraction. The acquisition of material values, imbibing emotional values, and the attainment of eternal value, these are the three requirements of human nature. You require material facility, emotional integration and spiritual perfection. These are the things that we are aiming at.
The law which operates in this universe is the very same principle that integrates these three kinds of aspiration: material, aesthetic or emotional, and spiritual. The spiritual is not to be considered as something segregated from ordinary life. It is the consummation and perfection of the otherwise inadequate levels of our existence as human individuals. Everything that we do, every thought that we think, every manner in which we are living is good enough from its own point of view, but it is inadequate; therefore, nobody feels completely happy. The development of these inadequate values into their pinnacle of complete realisation is what is called spiritual life; or rather, the planting of the element of God in the realisation of the values of life – that is spirituality.
So if you have understood the meaning of these few words that I have spoken, you would be able to find an answer to your question how Hinduism supports, maintains and enriches the lives of people. But if you consider it as one religion among other religions, then it is not a correct understanding of Hinduism. I have already mentioned in the very beginning that Hinduism has the capacity to absorb into itself the value of every religion, every cult, every level of existence, and it is supposed to be a friend of all the values of life.
The word 'Hinduism' is a misnomer, really speaking. That is not the real name of this perception in India. Please listen to me. The word 'Hindu' does not appear in any of the Hindu scriptures. It is something that has been imported under historical circumstances. In an early period of Indian history, Persians came here. They saw a river which they had to cross, which today is called the Indus River. It is called Sindhu in Sanskrit, the Sindhu River. The Persians pronounce the letter S as H, so Sindhu is pronounced as Hindu, and they considered all those people beyond the river as Hindus. It is a word coined by them, not necessarily explicatory of the people of India. Later on the Greeks and Alexander the Great came. Greeks pronounce S and H in a different way. According to their own linguistic parlance, they converted the letter H into I. Hindu became Ind, and so the word 'India' came from that word. Thus it is a historical concomitance and, really speaking, this religion cannot be designated by any particular word. It is the religion of God.
So, coming to the point once again, when understood properly, Hinduism is a friend of all, and in that sense it answers your question how it benefits people. But it can be distorted as one of the narrow-minded religions and completely disconnected from other cults and faiths; then it is a misuse and an abuse of religion. Swami Sivanandaji, our great founder, did not want to misuse or abuse the word. It has to be understood in its proper context. This is a brief answer to your question.
Another visitor: I am an educator and a writer, and my question is: What is the difference between the personality of one individual and the stages of life towards perfection? For example, if somebody has a predominantly contemplative personality, does that person have to go through the four stages?
Swamiji: It is not obligatory. If a person is well integrated in oneself, sufficiently perfect in the alignment of one's inner constitution, and is ready to concentrate the mind on God Almighty, then these things that I mentioned are not necessary. But when a person is not prepared for it, then these educative and disciplinary methods are to be followed.
Another visitor: I am a retired engineer, and I have a daughter who is a member of a similar ashram.
Swamiji: Your daughter is in an ashram? Where is she?
Visitor: She's in an ashram in America, and I have visited that ashram. My question to you, sir, is how can members of such organisations equate the fact that there are so many poor people and yet you are living in happiness? You are rich, and why is not some of that money spent on poor people?
Swamiji: Many institutions, many ashrams are doing service to poor people in their own way, in their own capacity and in the proportion of their power, the strength that they have got. There are many institutions like that in India. Although they are very much concerned with this subject, the only thing is, nobody has got infinite power and infinite capacity to do wonders or miracles. But my answer to you is, they are all concerned with it. To the extent possible, this service is being done in good measure, I should say. It is not ignored. It is still going on in good measure in different places, in various parts of India, in all ashrams, institutions.
Another visitor: I would like a more specific answer as to what the ashrams do for poor people.
Swamiji: They feed them if they have no food, and give medical aid if they are sick, and their children are educated if they are poor, and if their house collapses, we rebuild the house, and so many other problems they have got. For everything they come, and to the extent we are able to redress their suffering, we are doing that. Every kind of service is being done, everything.
Another visitor: You have disciples here from many countries in the world. How do you train them?
Swamiji: Each individual is to be taken independently from his point of view or her point of view, and mass education is not possible. Each student is independent from the point of view of perception, understanding and requirement, and all these are to be taken into consideration by the person who is catering to them spiritually, educationally.
Another visitor: Some who have taken sannyas are wearing saffron, and some are wearing white.
Swamiji: White is not sannyas. Some people here who are wearing white may not belong to the Ashram at all. They come and stay here for some time as visitors and have the company of people, and then go away. But there are also some permanent residents of this ashram who wear white cloth. They are in a preparatory stage for a further development of their disciplinary process. Later some of them take to yellow cloth, and then finally it is sannyas, last. The others are in preparatory stages.
Another visitor: Yesterday at another ashram we heard a lecture about the four stages of life. The four stages were explained, and so on, and I understand that you don't have to go through the stages if you want to go right into a contemplative life and just study in an ashram. My question now is, can you achieve a higher spirituality, understanding and happiness by remaining in one of the lower stages, such as if you are a businessman or a sheep herder and did not go into the final stage, can you not also achieve your own higher level of spirituality? Or must you wait and be reincarnated, and then go to a higher level?
Swamiji: To reach a higher stage, reincarnation is not necessary. One can reach a higher stage in one life itself by meditation. The higher life is not the next life; it can be this life itself. It is a mental life that we are speaking of, not a physical life. If the mind is mature enough, it can transcend all the stages and reach the highest perfection by meditation in one life, and there is no need for transmigration.
Visitor: But can you do this without joining or going to an ashram?
Swamiji: There is no need of going to an ashram.
Visitor: You can do it all by yourself?
Swamiji: People go to an ashram because they are unable to do this meditation independently. But if they can do it by themselves, there is no need for going to ashrams.
Another visitor: How do the children learn about Hinduism in villages if they do not go to school?
Swamiji: They learn through a teacher who is competent to teach. They cannot learn it by reading books.
Visitor: In a village would a child find a teacher, or would the parents and grandparents tell them stories?
Swamiji: The stories also are good. They are also very instructive in their nature. It depends on how the person presents himself or herself to the students in the stories. The stories are very good, only they must be instructive and illuminating and constructive in their nature. Much depends upon the teacher, and if the teacher is very good, the students will grasp all things by stories, anecdotes, comparisons, even by myths and fables. Even fairy tales also can be good, provided they are properly narrated.
Visitor: So if they don't hear the stories, how do they find out if they aren't taught well?
Swamiji: It is the teacher's responsibility to find out what the child requires, and from that point of view the teacher should teach.
Visitor: And if the children can't find a teacher?
Swamiji: They should find a teacher. They must be put in a school, in a proper school. Without schooling, it is not possible to understand things. A guide is necessary.
Another visitor: Would you explain reincarnation?
Swamiji: Why do you want reincarnation? You cancel it, and attain God in this life itself. It is like asking what sickness is, what illness is. Instead of that, ask me what health is, what well-being is. What do you say? You need not take reincarnation. I assure you, you can attain God in this birth itself, so you need not take another birth. Do you want to take another birth?
Visitor: Well, if it was possible, yes.
Swamiji: If you want it, you will get it. But if you do not want it, you need not get it. It is your desire that brings it about.
Visitor: What is the rational or intellectual explanation for the concept of reincarnation?
Swamiji: Birth and death are processes of the evolutionary process of the universe. There is evolution of everything in the world, from the lower stage to the higher stage, from imperfection to perfection, from inadequacy to adequacy, from finitude to infinitude. As everything in the world is finite, it struggles to overcome the limitations of finitude by modification of its personality. This modification of the personality in its inner constitution towards the achievement of larger and larger wholes of experience is what is called evolution. It is another name for the cessation of the earlier condition and the coming in of a new condition. Death is nothing but the cessation or the elimination of a previous inadequate condition and the rising into a more adequate condition. It is the same as evolution. Evolution in the cosmos is nothing but the same thing you called birth and death of individuality. Everything evolves, everything changes, everything is transcended. The lower is overcome by the higher. So it is not only mine or yours or anybody's. The words 'reincarnation', 'birth and death', are only the religious dogmatic traditional words that we are using. Actually, it is a purely scientific process of evolution from the lower to the higher, so it is unavoidable as long as one is imperfect and finite. But if you yourself are infinite, no birth will take place. You can attain God today itself, in one life.
Another visitor: Do you have a conception in your religion that one who is born with an extraordinary ability and intellect has an obligation to use that ability and intellect for the benefit of society as a whole, as distinguished from using it just for themselves?
Swamiji: Every person who has something with him or with her has an obligation to share it with other people. Sharing is obligatory, especially when you have it. It may be money, it may be social strength, it may be intellectual ability, it may be education, it may be knowledge. Whatever you have, you must share with others. It is an obligation.
Visitor: I have another question. How can there be a conception of reincarnation if there is no memory from one life to another?
Swamiji: Memory has no connection with reincarnation. It is a scientific process.
Another visitor: I am a nurse. I work in family planning. At the present time in the United States we have a lot of discussion about the right to die for a person who is terminally ill, that they should be able to select the time that they die rather than be forced by the medical community to live until death comes on its own. I would like to know your opinion on the right to die. My opinion is that they should be able to choose to die a peaceful and dignified death.
Swamiji: The desire of the medical society to see that a person continues life is an ethical desire. I cannot say they are doing the wrong thing. But the other person's wish to die when it is torture to exist like that is also justifiable from another point of view. This question cannot be answered like that, and it is not meant to be answered, also. It is an individual discretion of each person. If a person does not want any treatment and is sure that this treatment is not going to benefit him in any way, the person can say, “I don't want your treatment.” What can they do then? They cannot force it like that.
Visitor: But what if he's in a coma?
Swamiji: If he's in a coma, then what is the use of talking? Then that person has no particular discretion. Then the medical persons may do whatever they think is fit.
Another visitor: Can the doctors themselves put him to death without his consent and without his knowledge?
Swamiji: It is spiritually not good. They should try their best to save the person.
Another visitor: The Hindu religion and the leaders of the Hindu religion, how are they related to the population explosion and the fact that the country is overpopulated?
Swamiji: They are really not related to this subject. They can do something if they want, but it is not a part of the religious process. Anybody can do some good; there is no objection. The religious people advise people to live a life of self-discipline so that this problem is eliminated as much as possible, but it is not a part of religion. It is a part of social work, and there is no objection to a religious person doing social work. Social work and religion are not identical things. They are two different things, but yet a religious person can become a social worker and do social work and social service. They can also engage themselves in the work you have mentioned as much as is possible by educating people in the art of living, which may ameliorate the problems arising by this question.
Another visitor: How do you conceive Christ? How do you feel about Christ?
Swamiji: Oh, I feel wonderful. He is a divine being, a divine incarnation.
Visitor: We believe that Christ will come again.
Swamiji: God can come any number of times.