Darshan of Swami Krishnananda in 1998

by Swami Krishnananda

15. Saguna or Nirguna Meditation

(Darshan given on April 5th, 1998)

A visitor: On the road there are many yogis and pseudo-yogis. What is the more effective system? What is the more high and proper: saguna meditation or nirguna meditation? We would like your opinion.

Swamiji: This question has concern with the nature of God, whether God is saguna or nirguna.

Now you are in your country, developing a consciousness of God, isn't it? Do you have any idea of God in your mind? What is the idea you have got about God? How do you think God? Can you answer this question? Tell me.

Visitor: Our people are bewildered now. They don't know how to do, what to think about. They don't have any theory.

Swamiji: No, why this question of saguna and nirguna has arisen if the idea of God is not clear in the mind?

Visitor: There are many sections of yoga in our country, in our city, in the capital of Ukraine. They represent yoga, but sometimes they are pseudo-yoga. They create their own yoga, yoga system, and they begin to debate.

Swamiji: That is a different subject. Now, why did you ask me about saguna and nirguna?

Visitor: People would like to know what is more effective: saguna meditation or nirguna. They wanted to know more about this meditative system.

Swamiji: As I mentioned to you, the saguna and nirguna question arises only in connection with God. First of all, one must know what God is. What is the answer? What is God?

Visitor: What is your answer? What is God?

Swamiji: No, but without knowing that, why did you ask this question to me? Who is interested in saguna-nirguna?

Visitor: People in our country, people in the Ukraine.

Swamiji: You have no idea of God.

Visitor: They think that saguna is the religious aspect of God, and nirguna is the philosophic aspect of it.

Swamiji: So you know something. Already you know something.

Both are good. You can worship God through the religious aspect or through the philosophic aspect. When you conceive God as the Creator of the whole universe, He becomes saguna. When you conceive God independently by Himself, apart from creation, He becomes nirguna.

Visitor: It is very popular in our country and our region, The Society of Krishna Consciousness, and these people preach, propagate, that it is not necessary to do anything more than chanting mantra.

Swamiji: This is also good. You can reach God through chanting mantra also. It is also permitted. It is very good.

Visitor: Once one French philosopher said that Christianity and Marxism tried to conquer all the world, but they failed in this. And maybe there is now the time when the Vedanta will conquer the world. What is your opinion?

Swamiji: Christianity wants to conquer the world in the name of Christ. They want, if possible, to make everybody a devotee of Christ. A devotee of Christ is called Christian. Their faith in Christ is so much, and they consider Christ is the only way to God, so they honestly feel that it is their duty to make everybody in the world a lover of Christ, which means to become Christian. You may call it conquering the world if you like, but it is a religious way.

But Marxism is quite different. Marx did not want to conquer the world like Christians. His point was, poor people are exploited by the bourgeois. The capitalists swallow all the money and give nothing to the workers. So he wanted a proper, equitable treatment for the workers also. He considers that this is the best way of living. Capitalism is wrong; the bourgeois are not correct. They have a faith that equity of behaviour and providing the needs to the poor people is the right way of being compassionate and really good to people, so they would like to spread this doctrine to everybody in the world. This is one way of conquering the world. They have nothing to do with God. Marxism has no God.

Christianity conquers the world through the name of God; Marxism tries to conquer the world through economic forces. This is the difference. Okay?

Visitor: Okay. But what about Vedanta? Can Vedanta conquer all the...?

Swamiji: Vedanta is beyond Christianity, and beyond Marxism also. It is the highest philosophy in the world. It is difficult to understand it. It integrates everything. It does not reject anything. It absorbs everything, and creates a wholesome view of the whole world. The best philosophy is Vedanta. Nothing is equal to it.

Visitor: The next question is about how practically in our religion to help the Vedanta philosophy to conquer our religion. We live in very criticism conditions. People have no idea, they have no theory, as Marxism was.

Swamiji: Now why are you talking about Marxism? It is gone.

Visitor: Because our people live without any philosophy now, without any theory, and Christianity attacks us because we are representatives of Vedanta philosophy.

Swamiji: You can go to Vedanta. It is very good.

Visitor: Yes, we know, and we follow the principle. But we are criticised by Christianity, and now Christianity attacks us, attacks all the other theorists, and yoga also, and Vedanta also. How practically to work this in our religion?

Swamiji: In order to understand this, you must know what Vedanta is. It is a vast subject. It is the most complete philosophy in the world. It understands Marxism, it understands Christianity, it understands Islam, it understands Judaism, it understands everything. Vedanta does not reject anyone, but it absorbs everything into itself and transmutes it into a higher concept, beyond the concept of Marxism, beyond the concept of Christianity or Islam, so that it stands supreme in the world. For that purpose, you must understand what Vedanta says. You have to study deeply under a competent teacher. In a few minutes of conversation we cannot explain it.

Visitor: But how can we explain this meaning of Vedanta for our people?

Swamiji: You must study. Who will teach you?

Visitor: Vedanta books, and we came to India to talk with such people as you.

Swamiji: I will give you one Vedanta book, okay?

Visitor: What works on Vedanta do you consider the most important?

Swamiji: Upanishads and the Bhagavadgita, these are the best.

Visitor: It is enough for people, for studying people?

Swamiji: This is the highest Vedanta.

Another visitor: And Sankaracharya's books?

Swamiji: They are commentators on Upanishads and Bhagavadgita. They are only commenting on that.

First visitor: Bhagavadgita without commentary is very difficult to understand. What commentaries do you prefer on the Bhagavadgita?

Swamiji: You read the commentary of Sri Aurobindo. It is an impartial and well-presented commentary. There are other commentaries, like Sankaracharya and Ramanujacharya, and all that. You can read them also. But this more rational approach is of Aurobindo. It is easy for the modern mind to understand.

Visitor: What is the essence, the goal of life?

Swamiji: The goal of life is to overcome the limitations of life, to transcend the finitude of life and become infinite existence, Absolute existence. You have to become infinite and absolute and eternal. That is what is called God. Towards that aim, the whole universe is moving through the process of evolution. That is the aim of life.

Visitor: How completely to do such a way is possible?

Swamiji: By meditation, deep meditation. It requires great practice.

Visitor: Thanks for your attention to us.