Amy:  When desires arise, or anger arises in the mind, then what I am wondering about is since the Self is beyond the mind, and has no relationship to the mind...

SWAMIJI:  It has a relationship. If It has no relationship, then how will you contact the Self through the mind? It has a connection, in the same way as the light of the sun has a connection with the light of the sun reflected on a mirror.

I will give you an example. You keep a mirror here, inside this room, and imagine that there is a ray of sun falling on the mirror. This mirror receives the light from the sun, and projects it on a wall. Now, that light on the wall cannot be regarded as actual sunlight, because actual sunlight, if it had been there, can be seen even if the mirror is withdrawn. You cannot see this unless the mirror is there; nevertheless, it is sunlight only. So, the mind is a reflected consciousness, though it is not the same as Self-consciousness.

In the same way as through the reflected light you can contact the original light, through the mind you can reach the Supreme Self. It is not that there is no connection, though they are not identical in the same sense as in the analogy mentioned. Now, what is your question, finally?

Amy:  So, my question is that many thoughts will come and go in the mind, just by the nature of the mind itself. Rather than measuring or watching each object that arises and passes away in the mind, try to be rooted somewhere else, and to not act, or take too much importance. Say, if anger arises in the mind and passes away, there is no action taken on it...

SWAMIJI:  Anger, etc., arise in the mind because your consciousness is not settled in itself. It is moving outside; otherwise, there is no occasion for anger. The mind and the Self are not two things. You cannot separate them. You are now talking to me through the mind only.

Amy:  Yes.

SWAMIJI:  If the mind were not there, you would not be talking; and yet, the consciousness that is behind your talking is coming from the Self. You are conscious that you are speaking to me, and here a double activity is taking place. The mind is operating, and the Self also is operating. Both are acting directly, spontaneously. That is why you are speaking, and also you are conscious that you are speaking. Speaking is the act of the mind; the consciousness of the act of speaking is of the Self. So, you are having a dual function just now taking place. And when the mind is thinking of anger, desire, etc., actually, it has diverted the consciousness elsewhere, instead of centreing it in the Self Itself.

The whole problem of spiritual life is that the consciousness should not divert itself outside the Self. Self should not become non-Self. You should not become another thing, or other than what you are. You have to be what you are. When the consciousness thinks of something other than itself, A has become B. You have become another. How can you become another? You are what you are. The thought that there is something outside you is actually the affirmation of consciousness wrongly that there is something outside itself. It is affirmation of particularity, rather than universality. I hope you catch my point. So, these are important things. It is a very subtle psychological point.

Amy:  Yes.

Amir:  I know the fact of the Absolute, and I know that I am not my mind, no matter how I feel, and what thoughts go through my mind. I know that always for a fact. And from that perspective, it does not make any difference if confusion or anger arise in the mind.

SWAMIJI:  Why does it arise?

Amir:  Because this is the mechanical action of the mind.

SWAMIJI:  No, it is not mechanical. If it is mechanical, you will not be consciousness that you are angry. It would then be like a bulldozer moving on the road without knowing that it is moving. But you are not a bulldozer; you are conscious that you are angry. That shows that it is not a mechanical action: it is a deliberate action. That is the whole danger behind it. If it is mechanical, you would not be even aware that you are angry. It would be going on like a motor car without a driver, but this is a motor car with a driver. That is why there is a difference.

Amir:  So, you mean that I am actually creating the anger?

SWAMIJI:  You are creating the anger for a purpose. That is the whole point. Without any purpose, you will not get angry. Unnecessarily, who will get angry, unless one is crazy? There is a deliberate attempt behind it. You want to achieve something, purposefully; therefore, the anger arises. And, you are conscious of it, also. You are not unconscious. If you are unconscious, that is a different matter; you are pardoned. Unconscious actions do not produce results. It is a conscious action that produces a reaction. That is the whole point behind it, and so you must be cautious.

The entire life of a person is a drama played by consciousness, in many ways. And wherever consciousness is there, there you are, and you are involved in it. If consciousness is not there, you are not involved. If unconsciously something has happened, you are not responsible for it; but if you are conscious of it, you are responsible.

Janie:  Swamiji, from my understanding, that awareness or consciousness of the anger in my mind does not come from my mind; it comes from my Self which is beyond the mind. And, it is from my Self that I can have the discrimination over those thoughts, and choose to see them for what they are, and not act out of them - not react to them.

SWAMIJI:  Not react?

Janie:  Yes.

SWAMIJI:  Yes, yes. Certainly. You should not react.

Janie:  But I am saying that is the freedom - that is where the freedom lies.

SWAMIJI:  Freedom?

Janie:  Freedom from the mind, in knowing that which is beyond the mind.

SWAMIJI:  You see, I do not know exactly what you are speaking. If you are beyond the mind, you cannot get angry. It is the mind that gets angry. The Self cannot get angry. It is Universal Being. You are somehow not fixed in the Self. You have identified yourself with this medium, like a mirror, as I mentioned, which is the mind, and that agitates. When it agitates, you feel that you are doing something, thinking something, anger or otherwise. The consciousness does not agitate. It does not vibrate, act, or do anything, but the mind does all these things. When the sun is seen shaking on the water, the sun is not shaking, actually. It is the water that shakes, yet you may see it, and unintelligent perception may conclude that the sun is shaking. It looks as if the sun is moving.

So, likewise, you may feel that you are thinking something, while actually you are not doing that. It is a double action, as I mentioned already, of mind and consciousness. The awareness of it is from the Self; the activity is from the mind. They are blended together, and it looks as if you are doing it.

Amir:  Swamiji, in your experience, is there a difference or change in the content of the mind?

SWAMIJI:  Content?

Amir:  Yes. What arises in the mind after realisation - is there a change in the content of the mind after Self-realisation?

SWAMIJI:  You see, yesterday we had been discussing this matter. You have to, first of all, be sure as to what you mean by "Self-realisation." We have already threadbare discussed this yesterday. By "Self-realisation" you mean identity of yourself with the Universal Self?

Amir:  Yes.

SWAMIJI:  Then the question of "after" does not arise, because there is no time there. The word "after" you have used is a temporal expression. There is no "after" and "before," because there is no time. It is timeless eternity, so there is no question of "after." It is eternity, and eternity cannot be understood in terms of time. There is no "after" for God, or for a Self-realised person. There is no such thing as "after," because you are thereby bringing the time factor into it, which will not be there at that time.

Amir:  But still, the event of Self-realisation does occur in time.

SWAMIJI:  When the event of Self-realisation has taken place, the character of events ceases. It does not any more exist as an event then, because an event also is a temporal concept. Through time you move towards that which is not in time. But, once you enter that which is not in time, you cannot judge it any more in terms of time. The time factor has gone. It is like waking from dream. The laws of dream will not operate in the waking condition. So, there is no before and after. "After Self-realisation what happens?" Such questions should not arise, because there is no "after." Time itself has gone. You will be universal, all-pervading. The Self is prior to time.