Darshan with Swami Krishnananda – 1997

by Swami Krishnananda

44. Bhishma and Dharma

(Darshan given on August 23rd, 1997)

A visitor: Why does Bhishma at a crucial juncture say that dharma is that which the powerful do or say?

Swamiji: No, he didn't say like that. Nobody will say like that. He said it is not possible to answer this question. That's all he said. And when he was asked to answer the question, he said, “You refer to Yudhisthira, who knows things better.”

Visitor: But then he also said that dharma is that which the powerful do or say.

Swamiji: He has said a hundred things, all self-contradictory.

Visitor: This is one of these things.

Swamiji: Might is right. That is also one philosophy of political science.

Visitor: But Bhishma is saying that.

Swamiji: But he is also a political science man only.

Visitor: But at that particular juncture, which is not a political science question…

Swamiji: The whole thing was political, entirely, right from beginning to end. It is a preparation for war, and in war, everything is right. That is what people say. There is nothing wrong there.

Visitor: Bhishma is a participant in the preparation for war?

Swamiji: Yes, right. Certainly. If he had said that we don't want war, it would not have taken place. He could have told Duryodhana to keep quiet. Then nothing would have happened. But he had no courage to tell that, due to some weakness of feeling.

Visitor: He had no courage.

Swamiji: He had the power to stop it.

Visitor: He had the knowledge of dharma but he didn't have the courage to follow it.

Swamiji: He did not know dharma fully, only partially. When crucial questions arose, he said, “You please refer to Yudhisthira who knows things better.”

Visitor: That's right.

Swamiji: He was more like a mathematician who calculates, but dharma cannot be calculated on a computer. It is a flexible adjustment of values to changing circumstances. It is not a stereotyped, standard definition. You cannot do that. Every minute dharma changes, every minute.

Visitor: So he has not internalised it, he just has learned some rules.

Swamiji: He has totally failed finally because Draupadi's question was a very important question, and it is a question of today also, and he cannot answer that question. When it was said, “You know Yudhisthira is on the right path and Duryodhana is on the wrong path, so why are you siding with Duryodhana?” he says, “I am the servant of the salt that I have eaten.” Who asked him to eat the salt? That is another thing. It is another foolishness. He had taken a vow when he was young, “I will protect the king of Hastinapura,” but he did not know a devil will come and rule Hastinapura. He had to protect the devil also. He did not know that. He could have changed his opinion. A king is in Hastinapura and he has taken a vow “Whoever rules I will protect” but he did not know what kind of person has come. An evil man came. Will you protect him? But he will protect him because he has taken a vow: Whoever is there I will protect. This is called foolish logic, foolish logic. He cannot cling to that.

Visitor: His vow was to protect the kingdom but not the person.

Swamiji: But he mistook it. You must see the consequences of action and not merely the action itself. When you take any step, three or four factors are to be considered: firstly, the justifiability of your intention in doing that thing; secondly, the consequence. Your intention may be good, but there might be a very bad consequence of it, so the consequence also should be justifiable. The purpose for which you are undertaking this action should be justifiable, and the overall net result of it should also be justifiable. You cannot stick only to one aspect of it. People act with good intentions, but they produce bad results. “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” This is Milton. Mere good intention is no good. The intention may be good but the brain is not functioning. Each one is one's own judge under critical circumstances. Your conscience will tell you which is right.

Visitor: We must know what the conscience is saying.

Swamiji: Conscience does not require instruction. It is the voice of God inside. The last thing that you have is the conscience. Conscience is not consciousness. It is something deep inside. It is the soul telling you. When you try to do something, the inner conscience will tell you automatically whether it is all right or not. But many times you press it down with ulterior motives.

Stealing is very bad. Socrates has got this questioning habit. He will ask somebody, “My dear so-and-so, do you believe that stealing is bad?” “Certainly.” “You will stick to this answer always?” “Yes.” “It is unconditionally a correct statement?” “Yes.” “Suppose there is a madman brandishing a sword. A person very slowly goes behind him and steals the sword. Has he done the right thing or the wrong thing? So stealing is good? Now modify your definition,” he said. Like that he has got a way of putting people into a corner, and finally nothing can be defined unless the higher voice thinks.

Some dacoit was pursuing a pilgrim. A mahatma was sitting under a tree. The dacoit asked the mahatma, “Did anyone pass this way?” The mahatma understood the reason for this question. Can you say, “Yes, I have seen him. He is there”? Can you say, “I don't know anything”? Both sentences are wrong. So he adopted one technique. “That which has seen cannot speak. That which speaks cannot see,” he said. That is, that which has seen is the eye; it cannot speak. And that which speaks is the tongue; it cannot see. This is the answer he gave. Then the dacoit thought he is a crazy man, and he went away afterwards.

Visitor: But evasion of truth Swamiji, evasion?

Swamiji: But what he said is correct. I am telling correct things. The eyes cannot speak. What is wrong with it?

Visitor: But that's not how we can live in the world.

Swamiji: He has lived in the world. There was a client who filed the case in the court. It was a very weak case, weak. His lawyer said, “Your case is very weak. It will not work. So the only way I suggest is this: When the judge asks a question, you simply make one sound: blah. Whatever question he asks, you say 'blah'. He will think you are a mad fellow and he will send you away. Your witness fails. So in the court it was declared that he is a madman, and the official document says that he is a mad fellow. Afterwards he went away. The lawyer asked, “My technique has worked. Bring my fees.” He said, “Blah.” [Laughter] “Hey,” he said, “You are telling that to me also.” But he cannot file a case against that man because it is proved that he is a mad fellow.

Visitor: He was smarter than the lawyer.

Swamiji: There are so many interesting things in the world.