Darshan with Swami Krishnananda during 1997

by Swami Krishnananda

55. After Reaching That

(Darshan given on November 23rd, 1997)

Swamiji: You cannot say that you will be everywhere and always and permanent and omnipotent. These words should not be used because they are all connected with space, time and objects. 'All-powerful' means you must have something over which you have to show power, so that definition is not all right. And eternal – that is, you are connecting it with time. Everywhere – you are connecting it with space. So everything created after the creation, in terms of that you are describing it. But Nachiketas' question was: “What happens when you reach That?” Mind-boggling. You cannot say you are everywhere, you cannot say you are always, nor can you say you are all-powerful. What is it? Afterwards, what is it?

An ashramite: Swamiji, sometimes it comes to me that from where God came? He is such a lucky person that from where actually He came?

Swamiji: This is all some... Great devotees sometimes make fun of God. When they praise God, sometimes they... Ninda stuti they call it. Ninda stuti means it appears as if they are condemning Him, but actually it is a praise. Some devotee says, “O God, people say You are all-knowing. I don't believe it. You are not all-knowing because You don't know who is your father. Then how can You say You are all-knowing?” So this is a kind of ninda stuti. You are praising Him, and yet it looks as if you are condemning Him: When you don't know your own father, how can you say you are all-knowing?

But this is a serious matter. It shows the human mind should cease in order that you may appreciate that. That is why Yama did not give an answer to Nachiketas' question. Nobody can answer it. “Even gods cannot answer this question,” he said. Devair atrāpi vicikitsitam purā, na hi suvijñeyam, aṇur eṣa dharmaḥ: “Impossible to answer this question. Even gods cannot answer it,” he said. It requires a tremendous self-sacrifice from our side. Self-sacrifice means it is abolishing your existence itself. Unless this is attempted, you cannot have any hope.

Some little bit of attachment will be there for us. Finally, the attachment is to our own selves. Though we may not have attachment to property, relation, etc., we will be attached to ourselves. That is the last property that we have got. We will not be prepared to give it up. “If everything goes, okay, let it go, but I must be there. If I am also going, then it is inconceivable.” The greatest fear is the loss of one's own self. You don't have any fear of losing property. “If it goes, let it go. But if I go, no.”

The greatest punishment is death. Taking away all the property of a person and making him poor may be a punishment, but people are not worried about that. Capital punishment is the worst. It abolishes the existence of the man himself. That is the worst thing because existence is the dearest thing, and you are abolishing the dearest thing. The dearest thing is not property. The dearest thing is yourself only. That you cannot give up, but that you must give up; otherwise, there is no hope. That's why the question cannot be answered. It is a serious situation,  very serious. We cannot go on joking like that.

Another ashramite: Swamiji, the mind, it doesn't... When it goes to that, it is unable to think anything. It becomes blank.

Swamiji: It is not supposed to think at all. You have to be. You are not thinking God; you have to be God. Such a Visvarupa was shown by Bhagwan to Arjuna. He said, “I cannot bear it!” because in the presence of that he was like a moth looking at a flame. He could not tolerate it anymore. He said, “We don't want it. Sufficient. Come down!”

Ashramite: Visvarupa should go also.

Swamiji: You are not seeing Visvarupa; you are the Visvarupa. At that time, what will you think? The other day I was telling the brahmacharis it is all-seeing but not seen. Here is the Visvarupa picture. It is seeing, but it sees what? It sees itself only. Can you imagine that condition where you are only seeing but there is nothing to be seen? You may say we are seeing her, we are seeing him, but they are seeing also. They are also seeing, so why don't you say there is only seeing? The thing that you are considering as the seen is also seeing. So you must be a little more charitable. Instead of converting a thing into the seen, convert it into seeing. That which you are considering as the seen is also seeing, so there is only seeing; there is only self. And the total seeing is the universal Self.

Then all the attachment will stop. If there is something that is seen, then you can be attached, but if it is only seeing just as you are seeing, then there is no attachment. The question doesn't arise. There is no object there to be attached to because everything is as good as yourself. It is a masterstroke of detachment. This one little recipe is sufficient to cut off all attachment.

But there again is a little crucial point. When we say to cut off all attachment, there is a feeling that you are losing something. No, it is not like that. You are getting everything. All those who are seeing as you are seeing will be you. That which you want to possess is also seeing, so the thing that you want to possess is yourself only. So the question of possessing doesn't arise. This idea of possessing is a disease. It is a malady in the brain. Why do you want to possess? If you yourself are the thing which you are thinking of possessing, then how will you possess it? So desire is a malady; it is a disease which has to be cured by a proper technique of adjustment of thought.

Ordinarily it is not possible. When the thing that you want to possess itself is yourself, why you are possessing it? Are you possessing your own nose? What kind of desire is it? But there is a subtle voice which says you will lose everything. When you give up all attachment, you have lost that thing to which you are attached. That is not correct. It is not like that. You are getting it. The separation that you are maintaining between yourself and the object is the cause of your not getting it; but if you are identical with it, it will come to you. It is a very subtle matter.

Day and night you have to brood on this. If you cannot have time to think of your own welfare, then for whose sake have you got time? You should not say, “I have no time.” All the other things that you are doing are part and parcel of this sadhana. Somebody asked me, “Is there any benefit in doing work?” Now, that question should not arise because that which you consider as work is a part of your sadhana only. Sadhana is a universal comprehension. It is not only sitting in a room and doing some japam. It is a universal pervasion of thought; that is sadhana. In that, the work also goes inside. All the waves are already in the ocean, so the ocean cannot ask a question whether the waves are good or not. “Can I have waves, or should I not have waves?” Like that if you ask me, what can I say? It is itself. The waves are the ocean only. So the question whether what you do is sadhana or not has no meaning. It is a part of your Universal Being.

It requires great sincerity, honesty to one's own self, and you must actually weep and cry for that. Great mystics used to cry, cry. They cannot control themselves. Even the least separation from That, they cannot bear. When, when, when, how, how, how, when, when? It is a very serious matter because it concerns us directly. What can be more serious than our own welfare? 'Our' means not the individual I. It is the Universal I's welfare, which includes everybody's welfare also. Very subtle concept. We think 'I' means this Mister so-and-so. No, it is not like that. It is not Mister so-and-so that is the I. It is the whole thing, because everybody is an I only.